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Dips
4077 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jul 2009 : 9:49:45 PM
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Well we have this forum so thought I had better use it rather than keep taking over HW's diary with tour chat! 
Pasted below my last entry to HW's diary following from earlier comments.
Wiggo has clawed back a bit today, just need to kick that Shleck brother out and both he and Lance will be back in harness. I was in the Bike Store at Worthing this morning and actually felt quite tempted to try a bit of cycling. 
Dips x
"If you ever get a second chance in life for something, you've got to go all the way."
- Lance Armstrong
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fishyweb
2311 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 07:12:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by DipsI was in the Bike Store at Worthing this morning and actually felt quite tempted to try a bit of cycling.
Go on Brig, you know it makes sense. And I could do with some company on my stage of RR next year!
Actually, MattD and I were chatting about cycling at QMR the other day, and we're fairly convinced that doing some cycling can have massive benefits to running performance and injury prevention / recovery. All subjective, of course.
Ride like the wind, Wiggo!!!
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Steve |
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Heavyweight
1453 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 07:24:23 AM
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Excellent idea Steve - Brig could also get some biking practise in at the RNR, I'll bring some stabilisers
Watched Bradley on Dutch TV last night - they're seriously impressed with him. Also had the standard piece about why there was no/little coverage of the tour on English TV.
Bradley was saying that he'll have some extra help on Mont Ventoux on Sat as someone will be helping him - I had no idea what he was on about until J told me about Tom Simpson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Simpson |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 09:10:21 AM
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I've read the Tom Simpson biography - "Put Me Back on My Bike", apparently the last words he said - a fantastic read. Quite astonishing to hear some of the tales from cycling back then - stopping off at bars to get drinks to keep them going. Simpson was allegedly both drunk and on drugs when he died, but that was pretty much the norm!
As for little coverage on UK TV, it's not been too bad this year. Live coverage on Eurosport every day and on ITV4 for the big days. Eurosport is much better coverage though as there are fewer breaks. Bit tricky to understand what Sean Kelly* is saying sometimes though. They've also been in email contact with Robert Millar throughout the tour and his views are incredibly interesting.
I must admit, I asked my Dad the other day whether he still had his TT bike in case I wanted to do some duathlons in a couple of years. Unfortunately he's sold it as he doesn't race anymore. Have also dug out my old time trial results to have a look at - 22:27 for 10 miles at 18yo .
Wiggo's had a great tour and I hope he makes the podium. I just having a feeling that Ventoux might be a bit savage for him though and Frank Shleck will get away. I also think Lance will stick to Wiggo like glue.
Very glad Contador is going to win. Have wanted him to win from the start. I know alot of people wanted Lance to win, and as much I as I like him, I disagree with how he's orchestrated his return. He's shown a massive lack of respect for Contador.
Yesterday's TT they were covering the first 18km in 20 mins! That's over 11 miles. Having ridden something like 2500km already in the past few weeks! Incredible.
*Link about Sean Kelly - unfortunately this forum doesn't like the brackets in the URL so copy and paste this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Kelly_(cyclist) |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 11:11:06 AM
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Just wondered what peoples thoughts on this were....
Was discussing with Mrs P last night that in the cycling world the TdF is a much bigger deal than the Olympics. To win the TdF is a bigger achievement than the Olympics.
In my view, what Cav has achieved in the past two years, surpasses what Chris Hoy has achieved in the Olympics.
It's kind of related to David's point about TV coverage. For anyone who's watch ITV4's coverage, I'm sure you'll be able to recite the Chris Hoy Bran Flakes advert word perfect. Even among non-cyclists, and those that don't follow the TdF, Chris Hoy is a recognisable figure. Cav, Wiggo, Millar, Wegelius wouldn't stand a chance of their names being recognised, let alone their faces. |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 11:22:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by fishyweb
Actually, MattD and I were chatting about cycling at QMR the other day, and we're fairly convinced that doing some cycling can have massive benefits to running performance and injury prevention / recovery. All subjective, of course.
I'd be inclined to say that cycling is only beneficial if you cannot increase your running mileage due to recurring injuries. I think "massive" is probably going a bit far. Cycling uses muscles in a different way to running and will undo some of the work that regular running does.
If you want to improve your running, you need to run. You can't avoid that. If you want to enjoy sport and have modest running ambitions then cycling will be an enjoyable addition to your week. However, if you spent the time devoted to cycling, by running, your running would improve much more. |
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Dips
4077 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 12:16:26 PM
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My family are/were all cyclists so I was brought up on a diet of TTs, 24hr events and marshalling!  My Mum can tell you a story or two about their Sunday rides, where they stopped off at the pub for lunch, usually liquid! I have some fantastic photos of some of those rides.
This photo of my Dad must have been taken about 40/45 years ago.
My brother is still a competative cyclist (and a flipping good runner) and is planning for his second 24 hour race (cycling) next year. He has always said that cycling helps his running but not the other way round. I do think cycling comes into its own from a training prospective when we get a tad older than 26. 
Re: Olympics/TdF recognisable figures. Don't you think that it is more because the TdF is only really watched by cycling fans where as the Olympics grabs a wider audience and isn't limited to those with Sky etc? The media coverage for those who won gold medals at the Olympics is much further reaching.
As for me getting on a bike...that remains to be seen 
Dips x
"If you ever get a second chance in life for something, you've got to go all the way."
- Lance Armstrong
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fishyweb
2311 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 12:44:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by StephenPrice
I'd be inclined to say that cycling is only beneficial if you cannot increase your running mileage due to recurring injuries.
Good point. That was, in fact, similar to the context in which we were discussing it. We were in fact mulling over its benefits in recovering from injury. I should have made that clear.
And certainly, I can only really view this from my own scenario - I run as much as my body allows me to run injury free (around 4 days per week). I cycle on some of the other days. I'm quite certain that my running benefits from the addition of this cycling, more so than it would if I did no exercise on those non-running days. I think I benefit CV- and strength-wise.
quote:
I think "massive" is probably going a bit far.
OK, I'll settle for "substantial" - within the context of runners without bullet-proof bodies!
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Steve |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 2:10:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by fishyweb
I think I benefit CV- and strength-wise.
Absolutely. The CV impact will help if you're unable to spend that time running.
Dips > I wonder what your brother might achieve running-wise if he stopped cycling and spent the time running? I'm certain he'd become a better runner than with the cycling. I'm sure cycling does help running, but not as much as running helps running, if you see my point? BUT, it comes down to priorities, not everyone wants to solely focus on one sport. If I only ran for enjoyment, I wouldn't run as much as I do.
My view predominantly comes from my aim to be as good a runner as possible. I'm (nearly) 28 and have a few more years that I can really improve at running. Once I've peaked, I'll get the bike out again as I'm very confident I can regain previous fitness levels at that. A couple of years ago I did a bit of cycling (whilst marathon training) in readiness for a trip to the Alps with my brother & dad. I was surprised by how easy it all came back.
Anyway > back on the Tour, I think you're probably right about the wider audience piece. It'll be interesting to see if/when Cav/Wiggins get in the Queens Honours if Cav continues to do well over the next few years (Green jersey next year?) and Wiggins becomes a genuine GC rider - maybe wins Le Tour, Giro or Vuelta at some point? |
Edited by - StephenPrice on 24 Jul 2009 2:11:29 PM |
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Heavyweight
1453 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 2:29:10 PM
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Stephen - Interested in what you mean by cycling 'undoing' some of the running training?
TdF coverage is a lot better that it used to be - but is some way short of the total live coverage, highlights show, breakfast show & late night talk show dedicated to it that I am subjected to chez J.
As you have mentioned the wider audience is not really there - very rarely will it get mentioned in general sport bulletins or in the news in general.
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Dips
4077 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 6:58:50 PM
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Very rarely does any 'minor'sport get a lot of coverage/mention. Although ITV4 did show a Tough Guy race Wednesday eve.
Stephen, my brother has the privilege of working very part time so he is able to do all sorts of training. I expect his running would improve some more if he ran more but I think its about a balance of what he wants to do. I think he still loves cycling and even though he is past his peak he still trains hard. He was a pretty top notch cyclist about 10 years ago.
If it was between Lance and Wiggins for podium who would you route for? I would feel sad that the great Armstrong hadn't managed to get a place but I think I would have to shout for Wiggins.
Dips x
"If you ever get a second chance in life for something, you've got to go all the way."
- Lance Armstrong
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 7:14:34 PM
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David > I'm thinking of it from a neurological point of view. The more you perform any type of activity, the less you have to think about it. It becomes second nature. It's the same with running, the more you run, the more efficient you become. If you spent time cycling instead of running, you would unprogram some of the movement patterns related to running. Might not be a big difference, but if you are seriously wanting to get quicker at running then you need to look at every advantage you can get.
Dips > Yep, that's what I mean about priorities. By the way, cracking photo of your dad.
I'd definitely want Bradley on the podium rather than Lance, no question. Lance stole another 4 seconds today though so making it a little more tricky for Bradley.
Cracking win for Mark today and great to see him and Thor making up. Fingers crossed Cav can do it again in Paris. |
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PeteStockdale
416 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 8:54:52 PM
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I used to be an avid TdeF fan when I was in my teens as I could watch the coverage every day on Eurosport during the summer holidays. Many an hour watching Virenque charge up the mountains only to blow it with one dreadful day and a rubbish timetrial.
Lost touch a bit now I have to work during the day - half an hour of highlights doesn't do it justice and I don;t enjoy it as much when I can't absorb myself in it for six hours (and play the 'what the hell is Sean Kelly saying' game). Still try and follow the live updates online during the day though.
Cycling as part of running training: I ran part of the race I did on Sunday with a very good duathlete (ranked 2nd in the country for the 50-55 category). He was saying that cycling has no benefit to his running as such. However he did find that his most beneficial sessions were those where he went out on his bike, and then did a run immediately after (he also got to practice his transitions). He was able to replicate the later stages of a run (fatigue, tired legs), without having already pounded them, so he had no joint pain and was just working the parts that benefit from a hard workout. Runners World and Fetch refer to them as 'brick' sessions. This is maybe only of more benefit to older folks (like him) where joint problems may be more of a concern, but it is certainly something to bear in mind.
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"I just felt like running" - F. Gump |
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PeteStockdale
416 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2009 : 9:48:12 PM
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Just remembered that they are going up the Ventoux tomorrow and I don't have anything else planned. An afternoon of Eurosport is required I think!
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"I just felt like running" - F. Gump |
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richard
578 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2009 : 12:09:46 PM
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Interesting discussion on the benefits or otherwise of cycling for runners. Some recent research has shown that while cycling is not detrimental to running efficiency, running is detrimental to cycling efficiency (the references to the research are in the house and I am at work, will dig them out tonight).
If incorporating cycling in a running training program there are a a few things you can do to enable the crossover training effect more efficient.
1. Cycle at the same cadence as your running cadence.
2. Use clipless peddles so you are pedaling through the full range of movement, and not just pushing down from around 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock.
Remember to have the bike setup correctly to avoid injuries to knees, neck back, etc.
A couple of the benefits of cycling is that it is non impact and also does not involve eccentric muscle movements. These 2 things together considerably reduce the amount of micro-trauma inflicted on the muscles and so reduce the chance of injury and reduces recovery time. Basically muscles only need to replenish glycogen stores and do not need to repair a lot of muscle damage. That is the reason the TdF riders can ride at a high intensity day after day. There is far less muscle damage than occurs through running.
Great Tour by the way. Best in recent time, and no drug scandals.
Richard |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2009 : 12:19:05 PM
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richard > when you say clipless pedals, do you mean use cleats?
interesting that running impairs cycling.
Ah yes, post-tour conclusion:
Am well happy Bradley managed to hang in there on Ventoux and got 4th. Hopefully he can build from this experience and look for podium in futures grand tours.
Mrs P was amazed yesterday when she realised nobody had been caught doping. It's such a breath of fresh air and hopefully will continue. (less said about Di Luca the better).
Great sprinting from Cav on the Champs Elysee - next year for Green hopefully.
Vive Le Tour |
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Tour De France
