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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 5:12:50 PM
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I've read some info around calculating maximum heart rate and tried a session recently where I warmed up, then ran 3 intervals up a 800m hill and running back down. My heart rate peaked at around 186.
I did some interval training last week that consisted of 8 x 800m intervals and again max heart rate was aroun 185.
However, I ran a 5 mile race on Friday and max heart rate was 196 with avg of 185.
I'm assuming that max HR is the max your heart will go before...(it explodes, you die, what?) If so, is my max 196, based on Friday's race?
very confused by it all so any help appreciated
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Mij0
848 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 7:39:50 PM
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Excellent question.
How did you measure the max and for how long did it last? Reason for the question being that my Garmin will sometimes spike for a second or so which is obviously a false reading.
How did you feel on the first two occassions compared to the third? The average of 185 is very impressive - how young are you?
When taking a resting figure they recommend an average over 3 days - perhaps you could apply the same here but not sure if that is valid.
On one occassion (I was trying to impress the lady coach) I once recorded a figure around 210 - I had to cycle a fixed bike for half an hour while it slowed down - something to do with keeping blood flow going - the alternative was a heart attack. And no I didn't then use that as my max value!
Hmm on re-reading I don't think I helped, ho hum
Fat man thinning |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 10:47:01 PM
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When I did the 3 x hill intervals I felt shocking. My legs just couldn't push it any harder although I felt my heart & Lungs probably could.
The peak of 196 on Friday was at the end of the race (semi-sprint finish). I averaged 190 for the last mile and felt fine during the race.
Incidentally, I seem to recall that in a 10k in April when I got my PB my heart rate peaked at about 209 - I vomited shortly after I crossed the line!!!
During my interval training tonight (10 x 800m reps) my max heart rate was again around the 186 mark(I'm 26)
Last time I measured my resting HR it was about 40 BPM, I would suggest it's probably below this now due to my recent training. |
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Mij0
848 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 11:35:04 PM
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From what you have said it would appear that the 196 is probably closer to your max than the 186.
Your hill figure would appear to be low cause you said your legs felt bad but lungs were OK - normally I would expect your lungs and heart to be the limiting factor. Also for interval training unless you are deliberately pushing them to max you should get a sub 100% reading.
Your average of 190 for a mile also makes a value over 190 most likely. And it may be your real figure is higher than 196 too but it would appear to be a good working value.
Finally as a rough guide if you look at all the available age related ways of estimating they will give you numbers around this level. This obviously isn't necessarily accurate but it does give you a reasonable cross check.
Fat man thinning |
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fishyweb
2310 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 08:49:40 AM
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Stephen - my view differs from Mij0 slightly on this. Your HRmax is your HR when you are exercising at max effort that your body is capable of. Note that HR can be influenced by a lot of factors - ambient temperature, humidity, stress, general health (e.g. it will be higher if you are going down with a cold or other infection).
If you saw 209 during your pb 10k, and you are happy that this was a genuine reading (not an artefact caused by overhead power lines, cross talk from someone else's monitor etc), then I'd say that 209 is probably closer to your max than the other readings you mention, and is the figure I'd use to work on for calculating your various training zones.
The only sure way of determining your HRmax is under lab conditions with a savvy technician directing you through a maximal test. These tests can be arranged, however they are normally at a fair price (though I think some universities may run free tests for volunteers to help with their research occasionally).
There are some good books around on this subject. The one I use is "Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic) Idiot" by John Parker, available from Amazon.
I hope that helps.
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Steve |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 10:00:27 AM
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Cheers for your comments, both.
Will look into getting that book you mention to see if it helps.
Based on the figures of 196, where I still felt fine, and 209, where I vomited (nice), I'll assume a Max HR of 200. This would be about right with what I've been using for my training HRs. |
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richard
577 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 08:51:10 AM
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A few comments on maximum heart rate.
First, don't use 220 - age as it can be way off. There are other formulae out there some of which seem to be more reliable, the best one seems to be 205.8 - (0.685 * age), which has a standard error of 6.8 bpm.
HRmax is exercise specific. E.g. HRmax for running is higher than HRmax for cycling. One reason for this is amount of muscle mass involved in the activity. Running uses approx 60% of the body's muscle mass, while cycling uses just 40%, while cross country skiing uses around 80%.
HRmax decreases with age, and also with fitness. As you get fitter your HRmax will come down.
The most accurate way to determine HRmax is through a stress test, for runners this is carried out on a treadmill, for cyclists on a cycling ergometer, or on a bike fitted with a power measuring device such as SRM or Power Tap.
A typical method used in physiology labs uses what is known as a RAMP test.
RAMP test for runners. Make sure you are well warmed up by doing some 15 mins easy running on a treadmill. Now set the treadmill at 1% incline and the speed at a comfortable speed. Now increase the speed by 1 kph every 3 mins until you cannot maintain that speed any longer, you fall off the back of the treadmill. In a lab special precautions are taken to ensure you are not injured, so be careful if you try this in a gym. Your HRmax is your heart rate at the point you fly off the back of the treadmill.
A variation is to keep the speed steady and increase the incline 1% every 3 mins until you cannot continue.
RAMP test for cyclists involve a good 15 mins warm up, then setting the resistence at a pre determined level, say 100 watts, then increasing the resistence every 3 mins until failure. HRmax is your heart rate at the point you cannot continue.
As HRmax decreases with fitness, it needs to be redetermined every so often.
The reason to determine HRmax is to train using heart rate zones. Heart rate zones is another discussion all together, as some people use as many as 8 zones, while other advocate as few as 3.
Hope this was helpful. If you manage to get tested in a lab you will get HRmax VO2max and lactate threshold, all of which are useful in determining training. But again remember these will change with training. Lab tests can be costly, it might be worth contacting local universities that have Sports Science programmes to see if you can volunteer for either research studies or as guinea pigs of undergraduates,
Richard |
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Dips
4076 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 10:41:03 AM
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Thanks for that Richard, as a complete zog when it somes to HRM I found how to find the max HR helpful although I don't fancy flying off the back of the treadie. I think I will go for the incline option.
Pure coincidence I took my resting HR this morning and intend to get into the habit of it...if I remember 
This morning 54 ...not sure how this equates for a menopausal 48 year old 
Dips x
Slow and steady wins the race.
-- Aesop |
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StephenPrice
2113 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 11:56:16 AM
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| Cheers for all the info, very useful. |
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Mij0
848 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 11:23:34 PM
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Richard - do you know if there is a corrilation between HR Max running and cycling? Picking up my new bike this week end and want to get the right HR range for max benefit from my rides.
Fat man thinning |
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richard
577 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2007 : 2:19:58 PM
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Mijo
On average cycling HRmax is about 10 bpm less than running HRmax. Of course it varies from person to person. When I was tested in a lab a few months ago my cycling HRmax was 177 and running HRmax was 180, so my difference was less than 10 bpm.
You really should determine the two HRmax separately.
Let me just say something about training zones as well. There are many different ways of setting training zones. There are probably as many as there are books on the subject. Different zoning methods work for different people and also depend on what events you are training for. I use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle myself and use just 3 zones, TRIMP method as adapted by Joe Beer (TRIMP is short for TRaining IMPulse). The 3 zones are:
Zone 1 up to 79% HRmax
Zone 2 80% - 90% HRmax
Zone 3 > 90% HRmax
Using this method an athlete should spend a maximum of 25% of their time training in Zones 2 and 3.
Then using a heart rate monitor that enables you to set zones, are record how long you spend in each zone you can calculate the TRIMP for the session. I go out for a 60 min run. I spend a total of 30 mins in Zone 1, 20 mins in Zone 2, and 10 mins in Zone 3. The TRIMP for this session would be (30 x 1) + (20 x 2) + (10 x 3) = 100.
Another 60 mins session might be 40 mins Zone 1, 20 Zone 2. The TRIMP here is (40 x 1) + (20 x 2) + (0 x 3) = 80
So there is an objective measure of the session's intensity.
Zone 1 is aerobic, Zone 2 is lactate threshold type training and Zone 3 is maximum effort for sprint finishes, etc.
Richard |
Edited by - richard on 08 Aug 2007 2:31:19 PM |
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krissienewton
1268 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 7:08:14 PM
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I found this website a few days ago which seems really useful for calculating the different training zones and what your maximum heart rate should be for the different types of run (long, recovery, tempo etc).
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/hrtp.php
On first glance it seems like it could be a really handy tool especially as it allows resting heart rate to be included in the calculation so if it is elevated at a particular time this can be taken into account.
I have used it to work out a maximimum heart rate for long runs as I have found that I am going off to fast on them and am struggling to get to the end. I shall try out the maximum that it gives me tommorrow and see if it makes a difference  |
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richard
577 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2008 : 09:01:47 AM
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There is some good information in this site. Thanks for the link. I like the calculators for the Cooper test and Balke Test as well, which are a good way to estimate VO2max without going to a lab.
Another way of estimating VO2max, and recovery are the new Polar HRM such as the RS800 (although quite expensive). They use heart beat variability. The greater the variability between each beat the more recovered you are and the higher your VO2max.
Richard |
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erics
198 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 10:12:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by richard
Another way of estimating VO2max, and recovery are the new Polar HRM such as the RS800 (although quite expensive). They use heart beat variability. The greater the variability between each beat the more recovered you are and the higher your VO2max.
Richard
My Polar HRM will estimate your VO2max - always seems strange to me that to do this test you have to wear the chest strap and lay still and relaxed for a couple of minutes - certainly a lot easier than the maxHR tests!!
--
London Marathon 2008 Heart runner - www.justgiving.com/ericstannard
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Lumsdoni
57 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2008 : 1:59:35 PM
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Hi,
I have been HR training for a year or so now so thought I would chuck in my two penneth!
Re: Max HR, I wouldn't assume a value at all - if you saw 209, and it was at that level for some seconds then use that.
I use 182 as my Max, (I'm 33), I have seen my HR peak at this twice,. both during sprint finishes at the end of 20m races, and I know full well I couldn't have worked any harder. The highest I have seen in training on a hill is 178 I think.If you think the 209 was an error then use the 196 until you see a higher value.
My RHR is 48
Read my training blog at http://www.runningpete.com |
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Lumsdoni
57 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 3:34:46 PM
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Interestingly following that last post - I ran a t 10m race yesterday and after crossing the line I saw that my Max HR was 188, not the 182 I thought it was. I nearly threw up in the funnel after the finish so I think I was pretty much flat out so will be using the new figure.
Read my training blog at http://www.runningpete.com |
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Maximum Heart Rate
